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How to Find Motivated Sellers Online with Facebook Ads

Expert interview with Cris Chico

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In this video, I interview Facebook property deal sourcing expert Cris Chico.

Cris has been using Facebook to find motivated sellers online for years.

He's based in the USA, but his techniques work in the UK or anywhere in the world for that matter.

We talk about why the old way of doing deals is slow, expensive, and inefficient, and not to mention inconvenient in this age of COVID.

Cris talks about how both beginner and experienced property investors can get up and running quickly on Facebook, and start generating leads very quickly and cost effectively.

He also reveals how you can get more help on this from him.

 Discover Cris's Facebook Virtual Sourcing System

How to find motivated sellers online interview transcript

John Wilson: Okay, welcome everybody. And today I'm going to introduce you to my colleague Cris Chico. Now Cris is based in the USA. But he is a master of online property sourcing. He basically invented what became known as “virtual wholesaling”, and for our UK audience, wholesaling is just the American name for deal packaging, and he's also pioneered online real estate deal sourcing using Facebook Ads.

Now, I purchased this Facebook course for finding motivated sellers a couple of years ago. I implemented it and sure enough. I was able to start generating motivated seller leads on demand. So Cris, welcome to the broadcast and why don't you start by telling us a bit about who you are and why people call you the goal of the Godfather of virtual wholesaling. 

Cris Chico: Well, first of all, thanks for having me on number one, and I never heard of that term before: property packaging, is that what is that what it's called on the other side, but it's interesting, I never heard of that. 

So I've been in real estate since 1990. Originally, I started as a real estate agent and you know, I went to college and did everything that people said you should do, which is get a degree.

Eventually I decided not to do that. And so I decided to focus on real estate. So I started as an agent. (You don't have to start off as an agent.) And eventually then made my path to becoming a real estate investor. Specifically a wholesaler, and I did that because I went to work for another real estate investor who was a wholesaler.

I did that for year and eventually ventured on my own and and so what happened is this is back in 2004, we were doing well here in the south Florida Market, which is where we were located and that was when the internet was just starting, you know, I said they things that was before I call it before Google Street View.

We had none of that before. I just had the idea of: I saw that other people were doing deals and other markets in the country around the country. And I said, well, I wonder if you could do that. And so through a lot of trial and error around 2005 and 6 is really when I started to do virtual deals from here and it was a lot of trial and error even stuff such as a getting photos of the property, you know, we had to hire somebody, find somebody local that had a digital camera that knew how to operate it and go through all that process and eventually ended up inventing the term in 2007: virtual wholesaling.

And that's why I'm considered the Godfather, because before I created the whole concept. Nobody had called that anything or had done it before and then since then, you know, I've taught lots of students. I think I have over 10,000 customers and clients that I’ve helped with that as well as there's a lot of other people using that term nowadays. It's become a common term that people use to describe, you know, the methodology of doing deals that way.

John Wilson: Wow. Yeah. I mean you do take Google street view for granted these days. It's hard to remember a time when it wasn't there, and I can see that you'd have to mess about a bit to get photos of the property. 

So what's wrong with the old way of doing property that some people may still be doing right now. 

Cris Chico: Yeah, if we consider the old way, you know the old way. If we consider the old way in terms of physically having to do things physically, which is in real estate people believe that that's the way you should do things, you know, you do physically inspect the property and need to meet belly-to-belly with people and certainly you can do business that way. 

However, you know, the main thing is that the virtual gives you two things: it gives you the opportunity to do the business in a more streamlined way. So you don't have to drive all over town. It also expands your opportunities, because now instead of you just focusing on one particular market, now you have the entire country available to you. 

So if you are in a particular market that may be difficult to do deals, for example in New York City. Then now, you can venture into other parts of the country. 

I also have clients that are doing this business from you know, like for example in Israel, I have clients in Israel that are wholesaling houses here virtually.  And so then you know those opportunities would not be available to them if they were not willing to consider the virtual aspect of it. 

And obviously it's a lot easier now than it was before from a tools perspective and also from an acceptance perspective meaning the tools are you know, we talked about Google Street View and Google Maps and all the various tools that are available that you can query and figure out what a property is worth. A lot of that stuff wasn't available back when I started. 

They're even just properly getting signatures. You know, when I started you had to mail the seller a package and then you had to put a return envelope and they had to mail it back and now they can just quickly sign that document on the phone. 

So, that's one part of it and the tools aspect of it, and also the other part of it is now especially even before COVID, but especially that with COVID people are willing now more so than ever to entertain the idea of doing something virtually. Of selling the house virtually, of not having people coming through their houses. So I think that also helps, it makes it easier because now the seller or the property owners that you are trying to do business with aren't going to demand that hey you need to come and look at my property for them. 

They accept that hey we're going to do this completely virtual and there's other ways, you know, there's ways to take a look at the property by getting it to take photos Etc, but it's a combination. 

Those two things that make the new way a lot more efficient. So not only do you have the tools, but you also have the mindset of the people that you're dealing with that are open to the virtual model. 

John Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely a model that's coming of age now, with not that it's not just a nice way of doing things, and more efficient way of doing things, but notes for a lot of people it's it's becoming more essential, or the way that you have to do things if you know with social distancing and all of that. 

So going back to when I joined your program Cris. It was all about finding motivated seller leads locally to where you are. And I noticed you've changed the focus of that to now being more about a kind of nationwide virtual real estate finder. 

Why did that change, and what are the advantages of this new way of doing things, and why is it so simple and profitable? 

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Cris Chico: There's a couple of reasons why. There is the platform issue. There is also the competitive issue right and then there's more opportunity. So the platform is that in Facebook, Facebook works better the bigger the audience you give it. So if you're targeting a very specific area, then you're going to pay more per lead and you're going to be competing with more people than if you expand your area. So there but one that makes it easier and gives you a lower cost per lead to be able to do it. 

Secondly, when you target nationwide, you're having to deal with less competition because in a typical, you know in a typical real estate investing wholesaling business, you know, you're deciding on what market you're going to go into that warm market you're going to decide say I'm going to get a proper list of people that are delinquent on their taxes, but guess what 10 or 15 or 20 other investors are getting the same list, and you’re mailing them as well as other people. So you have a really tremendous saturation. 

What happens is if you target nationwide, you're getting deals in a lot of areas throughout the country that are not heavily targeted by other Real Estate Investors. Yes, you will also get deals in heavily populated areas too, but you're not, you're not dependent on just those very populated areas. 

You're getting deals from all over the country. So it makes it easier to deal with those sellers because many times when you're on the phone with a seller you're not in a competition with somebody else you're not telling you all got four or five other letters from other Real Estate Investors that are looking to buy my property. 

So the competition aspect of it is also less, and also the opportunity meaning that rather than you just saying. Hey I'm going to do deals in this area. Now, you have the whole country to be able to do them in and especially now when you add the layer of the fact that of the virtual aspect of it the tools and the fact that people's mindsets are very much Pro virtual then it just makes that that business a lot easier and you know, that's that's the hardest part of our business is, you know, you got to find motivated Property Owners, but you got Do it at a reasonable cost and that's what the Nationwide model really affords us. 

John Wilson: Yeah, definitely, I've run Facebook campaigns for other things and you always find the bigger the audience that the cheaper the cost per lead, and yeah sales also. Yeah, you pretty much covered my next question about: is the method suitable for the current environment of Covid and lockdowns. You may want to say more on that, but also is it suitable for beginners or experienced investors or both?

Cris Chico: Yeah, I mean, it's for both. I have a lot of clients that are new investors that are coming right from the very beginning. They've never done any sort of lead generation or any real estate experience, and starting from scratch with Facebook and getting the first deal. And then we have experienced investors that are maybe doing cold calling, direct mail, or other marketing avenues, and now they're looking for a new source of leads. 

Now the national model really can only be done with digital marketing, because let's say that if you wanted to target, even if we, say, just wanted to target the entire State of Florida as an example. Let's say I didn't want to go nationally, but I'm in Florida. I'll just do the whole state of Florida. It's very difficult to do that if you're doing conventional methods such as direct mail or cold calling because it's very cost prohibitive. You're not going to mail the entire State of Florida. You can, but it's going to cost you a pretty penny, right: there's over 12 million or so people. 

So the Nationwide model really you're only able to do that with digital marketing. And so we have a lot of students to start from scratch that never knew anything online marketing and are able to successfully get up and running in a couple hours, and be able to start generating motivated sellers. So definitely it is for both beginners and also for experienced investors looking to find a new way to get deals. 

John Wilson: Yeah, that's awesome. And I'm sure that it's on everyone's minds that's listening to this. What is the conversion rate? Because you know people who have generally tried different methods of getting leads. What is the general quality of leads that you can generate from Facebook Ads?

Cris Chico: I'll answer this question a couple different ways. Number one is what's the difference in the type of lead with Facebook versus other other methods, right? 

One of the Main benefits of a lead generation strategy on Facebook, is that these people are incoming. So unlike a strategy where you're cold calling people: you're outbound and maybe they weren't interested in talking to you that day. 

And now you have to get over the obstacle of okay, who are you, why are you calling me? And then finally get into a situation about the property. These are people that have raised their hands on Facebook and it said, hey, I'm interested in selling my property you know what, please let's have a conversation about it. 

So first of all, you're dealing with a warm prospect, and then and then it comes down to a numbers game, you know, the cost per lead is generally very favorable with Facebook because say, we’re spending $10 a lead as an example versus say direct mail might cost you, you know upwards of seventy five dollars a lead. 

So now if you look at it, if you look at this business from a purely numbers perspective and if we say that hey in order to get a deal you need to at least have let's say a rule of thumb, you need to generate at least 50 leads, then one of those will turn into a deal, depending on your level of skill. 

You can take in more than one deal from 50. We have students that do one deal in every 20 or so leads. 

But let's say use that number 50 leads. If you're if you're doing direct mail and every lead is seventy bucks. You know, you're spending about $3,000. So you're spending about three thousand dollars in order to put yourself in an opportunity to get a deal. Well Facebook is in the league of $10 a lead. 

50 leads is 500 and a much different situation. And if the average deal could be worth $10,000 or so then with Facebook you get much better ROI, so Facebook gives you a lower cost per lead to work with which is great when you're brand-new because when you're brand new in the business and if your lead cost is 75 or a hundred bucks per lead then every time you're talking to that individual like you're really like the worried like, oh my God this lead cost so much money, if I screw this one up, I got to spend another hundred bucks. 

So, you know with the lower cost per lead. It kind of gives you more leeway. Not that you don't want to take advantage of every lead that comes in. But at the same time, you know it's a lot easier when it's $10 leads versus hundred dollar leads, for example. So does that make sense? Does that answer that question? 

John Wilson: Absolutely. It's definitely about you know, the return on your investment. You know as property investors, that's what it's all about, you know. The cheaper you can get good leads for the more, you know, the better your bottom line is going to be and that's what it's all about. 

Now certainly when I first approached Facebook ads, it was a bit daunting and you know, that's even as someone who comes from a techie background, so it can be a bit daunting for someone who's not done it before. So can you tell us about how you can help with your Find Motivated Sellers Online course?

How to find motivated sellers online with Facebook ads

Cris Chico: Yeah, I mean as with anything new, you know, there's always a learning curve. I would say this; in terms of learning the skill of online marketing and advertising, Facebook is the easiest platform to learn on. Once you learn that platform, it's easy for you to take that knowledge and be able to do it on other platforms.

Number 2 is that it doesn't require you to have a tremendous technical ability. Everybody that we have in our group that has that data is successfully doing deals. They started from scratch where they had never done it before, and you can get up and running in a matter of a few hours. And the way that we help people get up and running is the fact that we have three layers, right? We have step-by-step video tutorials.

That walk you through as if you, almost as if you didn't even know the internet existed, we're starting you first grade, and then (not quite there) but almost there, right so we started from scratch, you get the follow the video tutorials and step by step and no matter how great the video tutorials are, you’re always going to have questions, and so we have multiple layers of getting questions answered. 

So we have two different Facebook groups that you can go in and you can ask questions. I go in and answer questions and all the successful students answer questions. So now you have a community, you have a way to get your questions answered and then also further, if you get stuck, we also have a very responsive support desk. So if you're stuck at a particular thing you can't get it figured out, you reach out to us. And then we help you in any way we can. 

And so I think you know, I really pride myself on the fact that we really have great customer service, and we have a lot of case studies and testimonials of successful students, but that doesn't happen by chance. It happens because hey, we really, and again, we're always constantly tweaking the course as well. So we're always doing updates to make it better but on top of that no matter how good I do the course, I know there's gonna be questions. So we have avenues for people to ask her questions. And I think that's the reason why people are so successful with the materials. 

John Wilson: Yeah. Yeah can testify to that, you know being in the group there. It's certainly very active and you're pretty hands-on. You're doing Facebook lives, and they are pretty regular and so on. Yeah, so that is awesome. So in terms of time investment a lot of people getting into property, they've got a full-time job and they want to run it alongside that. Is it suitable for someone in that kind of situation?

Cris Chico: Yeah. Facebook is great for that because let’s say you have a full-time job and you want to get this business off the ground. The challenge you may have is that you have a very limited amount of time. And so then, you know, if you look at a strategy like cold calling, for example, you need a certain number of hours per day to be cold calling people in order to get leads, if you have a full-time job and get home at five or six. 

You're not going to have time to call. So you really need an inbound way to get leads so that you have something that's working in the background finding these prospects, while you're doing what you're doing throughout the course of the day. And that's a great thing about Facebook, because of the fact that you know, these leads are incoming once you set up the campaign. 

I always recommend people just to really focus and try to get it done as quickly as possible. You have people that have signed up literally for the course at six o'clock in the afternoon and by midnight, everything is up and running. And then now they're in a position where now they have ads up and running and and and then once you get that foundation set up then it's just your you have it running in the background.

You're tweaking a couple things here or there but it's a lot less work, you know than a lot less work. Once you have it up and running and again as you're going out and about your day as leads come in, then the lead will come into your e-mail or you can have a text sent to you. 

There's a variety of different ways to receive the leads and at that point then you communicate with the people on your time. And so I think that's the benefit of any inbound strategy and especially with Facebook is that you can have it work in the background while you're doing something else and thus if you're working full-time, it's a perfect way to get this business started.

John Wilson:  Yeah. Absolutely, you know having done it myself, there is a little bit more work at the start. But once you've got all the kind of the framework set up, you know, it's really just a little bit of maintaining it from time to time. So it's not that time consuming at all. So obviously this is a paid ad strategy. 

A lot of people may be used to just doing free advertising, you know, guerrilla marketing, leaflets or bandit signs, things like that. But you know, are we talking about hundreds of dollars or pounds a day in ad spend? I mean on average how much do your students need to spend to get a deal? 

Cris Chico: Yeah, so that's a good question. My recommended budget is you can start for as little as 15 to 20 dollars a day, you know, so, let's say if you did $20 a day on average. I always give people the rule of thumb that hey you want to generate 50 leads. You want to go into it with the intention because if you said hey, I'm just going to generate five leads and then and then see how it goes. 

You know, that really isn't the best strategy because we've had students at the first couple of leads that they got in they got a deal from. But you got to work the averages right? So you got to go into it thinking I'm going to generate 50 leads. And so if each lead is say 10 to 15 dollars, then you can extrapolate from there how much in total you'll have to spend. 

The benefit with Facebook is unlike, say, if you're using direct mail and you want to mail postcards and letters, you have to commit to spending a certain amount of money at one time. So you have to say look I'm going to mail out two or three thousand postcards and spend a couple thousand dollars. Hopefully, the list is good. Hopefully the postcard is good. Hopefully I didn't mess up with any of the technology in the phone system. And if all works, well, I'll get calls.

Well with Facebook, the positive is that if you spend $20 today, the only way that you're going to spend $20 tomorrow is that you spend $20 today and you got leads the only way you would ever spend $500 is that you spent $100 and you're like, wow, I'm getting leads. I'm having good conversations. So I'm just going to continue to give Facebook money. 

So the benefit with Facebook unlike other strategies is that you only spend incrementally, so that means that then you don't have to put you know the fear of hey, I'm going to put a whole bunch of money into something, but I'm not really sure if it's going to work out or not. And the fact is that that makes it a lot easier to implement that strategy because again, you don't need to hold a lot of money up front, and you do it in increments. 

And again, the only way that you would ever spend 500 bucks is because you spend $100, you spend two or you spend three, and all throughout that spending you're getting leads, and you're saying to yourself: okay, this is working. You’re just going to keep on spending, right?

John Wilson: Yeah, you're obviously not going to keep spending if you don’t have the leads, and you can kind of keep an eye on that and the quality and not you know, it's not like you're going to drop a thousand dollars and nothing's going to come of it. So how long before people could start getting leads? You do the setup, you press go, how instant is it? 

Cris Chico: Yeah. So let's say, if I'm targeting the State of Florida and I'm going to put a budget of say 25 bucks for tomorrow. So let's say today I get started. That's it. It's ten o'clock in the morning and I'm going to sit down. 

I'm going to set everything up and then what I'm going to do is that my suggestion is always to start the ad in the morning so you can start the ad at eight o'clock in the morning right when you wake up, you turn the ads on everything is set up and then now you let it run the whole day by the end of that day. 

You should have a couple leads, you know, and then at that point then then you can if you didn't get any leads you can kind of you can then figure out. Okay? Why did I do everything right? That's where that comes in and terms of the feedback loop right? Because, you know, if again going to the example of direct mail, if you were to spend a couple thousand bucks and direct mail, and the list wasn't good the postcard wasn't good. 

Well now you gotta like you have to go back and to retest it or to tweak anything. You have to go back and spend another couple thousand bucks here. It's just $20 a day. But again, the objective is you set up everything today, you turn the add-on tomorrow and by the end of the day, you should have a couple of leads in your inbox that are ready to talk to you about selling. 

John Wilson: Property. Yeah, it really is that fast and it's exciting to see these leads coming in and be able to start having conversations with people. And I really like your text messaging strategy because you know these days a lot of people aren't even used to speaking to people on the phone. They just prefer texting and I think that's an awesome twist on things that you teach Cris. So yeah, I mean as you said, you know, you've been teaching this for a while in the US, and you've got a lot of students, so can you tell us about some of the successes that they are having? 

Cris Chico: Yeah, you know, students are the best success that we have. Number one is that they’ve never done this before at all. I mean, they're just starting from scratch and now they're able to successfully use this strategy and get their first deal. Right? We have experienced investors that are also doing the same thing. The one thing I want to touch on is the fact that I believe that if you consider yourself a business owner because all of you that are here, that are listening to this and you're looking at doing real estate investing you at the higher level. You're looking at starting your own business. You're looking to become an entrepreneur. 

So if you consider your journey as an entrepreneur, you're always looking to acquire skills as an entrepreneur that are going to help you regardless of whatever business you're in. Right? So one of those skills for example is the ability to learn how to have a sales conversation with someone and I don't mean, you know, twisting somebody's arm or anything like that but to be able to have an intelligent conversation with somebody that then you would be able to present them your service whether that be to buy their house or whatever that may be. 

I'm a really firm believer that everybody should learn online marketing. Everybody should learn the ability to go in and to any platform and be able to get customers, because that's going to help you in real estate that's going to help you in anything you do, right? 

Facebook is the easiest platform to learn and once you learn one platform, it's easy to learn the others. It's like in real estate. If you buy a single-family house and you learn how to use a contract to buy a single-family house. 

Well, let's say that you wanted to buy a small apartment building. Well, yes, the contract is a little different but now you're not starting from scratch you're using the foundational knowledge you acquired for doing single family houses. And now you're taking that and just you know, there's some tweaks here and there, but you'll be up and running fairly quickly; quicker than if you were starting from scratch. 

And it's the same thing here in terms of once you learn Facebook, like for example, not saying we need Snapchat, but some of you might be familiar with Snapchat and their whole ads platform looks exactly as if they copied Facebook's. 

So if you want to use that it's easy because now you understand the language of advertising and everything else. So I'm a big believer in that. I think it benefits anyone here today to learn. 

Learn how to do online advertising because online advertising isn't going to go away. It is not going to go away no matter what happens. In the future, if Facebook is not around, some other platform is going to be around and once you understand how to do it, then it's easy to transfer the knowledge.

I think it future-proofs you as an entrepreneur, that you're going to always have the capability of going out and getting customers online. I think to me that's that's the other thing that I really get juiced about, because I look at it as not only that I help the student get a deal, but now I increase their capabilities because now they have now something that they know and understand how to do that's going to help them regardless if they continue with real estate or any other business for that matter. 

John Wilson: Yeah, I know that's so true. I say it is a great foundational skill for real estate property, or whatever business that you want to run. That's great. So yeah, thank you so much for speaking with us Cris and I just want to speak for a second about a special offer I want to give the audience here. 

I obviously, you know, I'm a member of Cris's program. I believe in it and you know people often ask me. You know, I've got my website set up. How do I get visitors to it? How do I now get leads, and at the moment, Facebook is my number one recommendation for doing that. So for a limited time, I want to throw in a few bonuses for anyone who wants to grab Cris's Find Motivated Sellers Online program and you know, you're obviously advertising on Facebook you're getting leads through Facebook, but you do still need a website for your property business if you're doing that. 

So if you don't really have a website then I'm going to give you 30 days free access to our Guerrilla Property Websites product, and that will allow you to quickly and easily create and customize your own deal sourcing website. And this will help you set up a website for your business no matter where you are: the USA, UK or anywhere else in the world for that matter.

And also for any UK investors out there, if you don't already have it, I'm going to throw in a full 30 days access to our Guerrilla Property Investing membership that will give you access to all our courses including our Deals On Demand course that teaches you how to negotiate with motivated sellers after they contact you on Facebook, to create win-win solutions for them. 

You'll also get access to our deal packaging course, and that teaches you how to package deals that you find on to other investors for a fee. And if you don't have any investors, then no problem. You'll get access to our joint venture facility that will allow you to partner with us to sell your deals to our list of several thousand subscribers. 

And of course, you'll get unlimited email support from myself, and all you have to do to get that is just forward your receipt that you get when you purchase Cris’s program to, and we'll set you up with that free trial. 

So if you'd like to take advantage of that offering to get started with Cris's course just click the link which is going to be around this video, probably below it, to get started. 

I’ll just pass it to you Cris for any final thoughts or advice to someone unsure about whether now is the best time to get started, or if Facebook is the best way to go. 

Cris Chico: Yeah, I mean I will say a couple things. Number one is that I think you know number one is talk about real estate talk about the timing, and talk about Facebook. Real estate is always a great opportunity no matter whether you want to buy one house a year, whether or not you want to buy one house a month, or you want to buy 10 houses a month, right? At the end of the day, it's proven that real estate is worthwhile. Number one. 

Number two is wholesaling. If you’re wholesaling it’s a great gateway to get into real estate because it teaches you the most important skill which is sourcing discounted properties. 

Now, whether that you want to wholesale them, and then maybe later on, you want to keep some of them, but at least you have the inventory, you have the houses in front of you, or the properties in front of you that are good deals. 

So number one is I think that real estate is always a great opportunity. I think you know the timing of things is that I think over the next couple of years, there's gonna be a lot of opportunity for people to make a lot of money in real estate, you know, obviously there's a lot of things going on with the economy and housing and housing is a big part of it. 

But when you're doing wholesaling, you're not holding on to any property so you know now is a great opportunity because there's going to be a lot of people that are going to be wanting to buy real estate at a discount. 

And if you can be the source for those individual investors to those properties, that this how you can make a ton of money doing that, and lastly but not least, you know how to source those deals. I like to focus on the strategy. There's not that much competition, you know, if you go into a room of Real Estate Investors and you ask 30 people and you ask them. Hey, how many of you are doing Direct Mail? How many of you are doing cold calling? You're going to get a lot of hands that are going to raise up. 

But if you ask that group, how many of you are doing Facebook ads or any sort of online paid lead generation, there might be one or maybe two if that are going to be raising their hands and so it is an unsaturated strategy. 

There's a barrier to entry because I mean, I'm the number one guy. And yet there ain't anybody else teaching it and also I think the benefit that you have from learning for me is that I'm also a real estate investor. So sometimes you get people that are teaching this to Real Estate Investors, but they never done a deal. 

They've never had any real estate experience. They have experience in running ads, but you know, you have to bridge the gap and so for me learning for me, you're getting knowledge from somebody who's not only an investor but also is using a strategy for their own business.

And lastly but not least, I would say just going back to the comment that I made that you know, as an entrepreneur you want to acquire skills and capabilities that are going to help make you know, no matter what circumstance is coming your way. No matter how the economy changes that these are skills that are going to help you make more money. 

They're going to help you sustain your income, and I do believe that learning the skill of online marketing is one of those skills that everybody should have in their tool belt, and so with me you're not only going to learn online marketing, but you're also going to be able to apply it in real estate. You can get two birds with one stone.

John Wilson: Yeah, I think that's a great point you make Cris about it being unsaturated. You know, it's certainly unsaturated in the US, and it is even less saturated in the UK, because I've never seen anyone doing this kind of thing in the UK, apart from me briefly. 

So yeah, we'll wrap it up now, but thank you so much for your time Cris. Thanks for chatting with us, I hope people have found that valuable. And once again, click the link below. Below this video or around it somewhere if you want to get started or checkout Cris's course, so until next time. Thanks for watching.

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